Changed from .45 ACP to 9mm —> Now getting bad yield and changing COLs
Quote from CrystalRed on August 10, 2024, 2:51 amI swapped my SQB over from .45 to 9mm and created two reference rounds w/o a primer. Both measured nicely in terms of flare, COL and crimp. Both plunk tested nicely as well.
Now I’m trying to load in production and out of 32 good rounds (COL, plunk, crimp tests) I have 9 bad rounds (too long, don’t plunk).
I’m aiming for COL of 1.150 as per the bullet I’m using.
When I flare too much I don’t pass my plunk test though my crimp seems to be in spec.
When I flare too little the bullet twists and turns in station 3 but the crimp is good and plunk is good, though I must guide the bullet into station 3’s die by hand.
And my COLs are all over the place from 1.1445 to 1.565.
I constantly tweak the flare in 1/8 turn increments. And I’ve tighten the crimp 1/8 turns about 4 to 5 times. Yet the COL keeps changing.
I’ve measure my bullets which are mostly .606 to .605.
Am I over thinking all this?
I swapped my SQB over from .45 to 9mm and created two reference rounds w/o a primer. Both measured nicely in terms of flare, COL and crimp. Both plunk tested nicely as well.
Now I’m trying to load in production and out of 32 good rounds (COL, plunk, crimp tests) I have 9 bad rounds (too long, don’t plunk).
I’m aiming for COL of 1.150 as per the bullet I’m using.
When I flare too much I don’t pass my plunk test though my crimp seems to be in spec.
When I flare too little the bullet twists and turns in station 3 but the crimp is good and plunk is good, though I must guide the bullet into station 3’s die by hand.
And my COLs are all over the place from 1.1445 to 1.565.
I constantly tweak the flare in 1/8 turn increments. And I’ve tighten the crimp 1/8 turns about 4 to 5 times. Yet the COL keeps changing.
I’ve measure my bullets which are mostly .606 to .605.
Am I over thinking all this?
Quote from CrystalRed on August 10, 2024, 3:23 amRereading this I should say that, of course, I’ve changed station 3 to adjust the COL. clockwise when it was too long. Counter clockwise when it was too short.
since my case flare was too narrow, I widened it ever so slightly. Then I got things set at 1.495, but the COL crept up to 1.565 and stayed north of 1.545.
scratching my head.
Rereading this I should say that, of course, I’ve changed station 3 to adjust the COL. clockwise when it was too long. Counter clockwise when it was too short.
since my case flare was too narrow, I widened it ever so slightly. Then I got things set at 1.495, but the COL crept up to 1.565 and stayed north of 1.545.
scratching my head.
Quote from CrystalRed on August 12, 2024, 3:11 amToday I started over. Third time now since June. And I built reference round #3.
The first thing I did was to adjust the flare until empty brass would pass the plunk test alone. I verified that factory new brass “just plunks” and adjusted the SDB, station #2, until empty brass would just plunk, and would fall out when I flipped the case gage over. (N.B. After adjusting station #2, I’d cycle the SDB and brass to station #3 and test how it received a bullet with my had, but I wouldn’t seat it with the press. So far it seems fine though I haven’t started production.)
The second thing I did was to seat a bullet in station #3, skip station #4, and measure the COL. My first measurement came out to 1.1545. After a couple station #3 seating adjustments I landed at 1.1495.
And finally, the third thing I did was to adjust the crimp way more than I had done before. Final adjustments here have me landing at 0.002” less than SAAMI .3800” specification for 9mm brass. 0.3780”
Now, I’ve done this before, twice. And after the second I got 32 good rounds and 12 bad rounds (not 9 as I mentioned above) insofar as passing the COL sanity test and the plunk tests. Terrible yield.
Does anyone have tips on how often to test the COL once I start loading powder and within what tolerance range should I be comfortable? Obviously this depends on the bullet and powder I’m using. In my case, BER HBRN-Thick Plate at 124 grain with Autocomp Ball powder and I have triangulated the starting/max loads as well as the 1.150 COL from three separate sources.
Thanks much.
CR
Today I started over. Third time now since June. And I built reference round #3.
The first thing I did was to adjust the flare until empty brass would pass the plunk test alone. I verified that factory new brass “just plunks” and adjusted the SDB, station #2, until empty brass would just plunk, and would fall out when I flipped the case gage over. (N.B. After adjusting station #2, I’d cycle the SDB and brass to station #3 and test how it received a bullet with my had, but I wouldn’t seat it with the press. So far it seems fine though I haven’t started production.)
The second thing I did was to seat a bullet in station #3, skip station #4, and measure the COL. My first measurement came out to 1.1545. After a couple station #3 seating adjustments I landed at 1.1495.
And finally, the third thing I did was to adjust the crimp way more than I had done before. Final adjustments here have me landing at 0.002” less than SAAMI .3800” specification for 9mm brass. 0.3780”
Now, I’ve done this before, twice. And after the second I got 32 good rounds and 12 bad rounds (not 9 as I mentioned above) insofar as passing the COL sanity test and the plunk tests. Terrible yield.
Does anyone have tips on how often to test the COL once I start loading powder and within what tolerance range should I be comfortable? Obviously this depends on the bullet and powder I’m using. In my case, BER HBRN-Thick Plate at 124 grain with Autocomp Ball powder and I have triangulated the starting/max loads as well as the 1.150 COL from three separate sources.
Thanks much.
CR
Quote from The Human Manual on August 12, 2024, 3:37 pmWe typically recommend flaring the case mouth at least .010" larger than a sized, unflared case mouth measures. With some plated and coated lead bullets, you might flare to .015-.020" larger. Your bullet should be held tight after seating, but before crimping. If the bullet can spin in the case after seating, then either the bullet is too small in diameter or else the blue plastic friction plate is worn. If bullets can turn in the case mouth after crimping, then the crimp is too heavy.
Expect a cartridge Overall Length Variation to be +/- .010". Plated bullets usually vary less than that.
We typically recommend flaring the case mouth at least .010" larger than a sized, unflared case mouth measures. With some plated and coated lead bullets, you might flare to .015-.020" larger. Your bullet should be held tight after seating, but before crimping. If the bullet can spin in the case after seating, then either the bullet is too small in diameter or else the blue plastic friction plate is worn. If bullets can turn in the case mouth after crimping, then the crimp is too heavy.
Expect a cartridge Overall Length Variation to be +/- .010". Plated bullets usually vary less than that.
Quote from CrystalRed on August 12, 2024, 7:13 pmI just took 8 of my rounds that did not pass the plunk test, deconstructed them, and removed the new primers. Then I recorded the Resize for each and the Flare for each. After resizing I performed a cursory Plunk test with my case gage. And, after flaring I also performed a second cursory Plunk test. Here are my results.
What does this data suggest I ought to do?
I just took 8 of my rounds that did not pass the plunk test, deconstructed them, and removed the new primers. Then I recorded the Resize for each and the Flare for each. After resizing I performed a cursory Plunk test with my case gage. And, after flaring I also performed a second cursory Plunk test. Here are my results.
What does this data suggest I ought to do?
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Quote from The Human Manual on August 13, 2024, 3:35 pmNo flared case should drop into the gage fully. Your size die is good. Check your ammo after crimping. Both insufficient crimp and excessive crimp will cause your ammo to fail the gage.
No flared case should drop into the gage fully. Your size die is good. Check your ammo after crimping. Both insufficient crimp and excessive crimp will cause your ammo to fail the gage.
Quote from Wally on August 26, 2024, 8:46 pmQuestion: are you using brass that was not shot in your gun?
I had a problem with 45 ACP because the cases had a bulge at the bottom of the case. I used a LEE bulge buster on all of them and didn't have any problems with them fitting in the case gauge.
this may or may not be your problem--just wanted to mention it
Question: are you using brass that was not shot in your gun?
I had a problem with 45 ACP because the cases had a bulge at the bottom of the case. I used a LEE bulge buster on all of them and didn't have any problems with them fitting in the case gauge.
this may or may not be your problem--just wanted to mention it
Quote from CrystalRed on August 26, 2024, 9:05 pmNew brass. As Gary (Human Manual) indirectly suggests above I needed to adjust the crimp by adding more crimp.
New brass. As Gary (Human Manual) indirectly suggests above I needed to adjust the crimp by adding more crimp.