concentricity/ run out
Quote from Reloader on June 8, 2016, 2:04 amI have recently begun testing concentricity on reloaded .223 & finding it to be terrible, with most measurements in the 5/1000 to 10/1000" range. I am using Dillon Carbide rifle dies. I think my dies are adjusted correctly & I take my time. Why is my bullet run out so high? I am able to correct this with another device to 1-2 thousandths but understand this is not as optimal as correct concentricity "hot off the press". What am I doing wrong?
I have recently begun testing concentricity on reloaded .223 & finding it to be terrible, with most measurements in the 5/1000 to 10/1000" range. I am using Dillon Carbide rifle dies. I think my dies are adjusted correctly & I take my time. Why is my bullet run out so high? I am able to correct this with another device to 1-2 thousandths but understand this is not as optimal as correct concentricity "hot off the press". What am I doing wrong?
Quote from Reloader on June 11, 2016, 3:18 pmWhen you set up the dies, always tighten the die lock rings with a case or cartridge up in the die. Additionally, adjust the bullet seating die with a fired case in station one. This ensures consistent upward pressure on the toolhead. Finally, what bullets are you using? Don't expect a bulk 55 grain FMJ bullet to be as concentric as a 69 grain match BTHP bullet.
When you set up the dies, always tighten the die lock rings with a case or cartridge up in the die. Additionally, adjust the bullet seating die with a fired case in station one. This ensures consistent upward pressure on the toolhead. Finally, what bullets are you using? Don't expect a bulk 55 grain FMJ bullet to be as concentric as a 69 grain match BTHP bullet.
Quote from Reloader on June 13, 2016, 3:16 amMy dies are set up exactly as you described. I use a variety of bullets: Armscor 62 gr, Nosler Varmageddon 62 gr, Sierra Match HPBT 69 gr & 77 gr. I don't use 55 gr bullets due to my fast twist barrel. The run out is the same with all of them. I just did a disassembly & lube of the press & used the alignment tool upon reassembly prior to this reloading session. The press functions flawlessly. I keep my dies clean. The run out measurements are very inconsistent, usually from 5-10 thousandths. Rarely, one will be 1 thousandth & sometimes as much as 13 thousandths.
I use once fired LC brass & keep it properly trimmed. All of the bullets mentioned above seat to a very consistent depth with OAL always being within 2 thousandths. I do not use compressed loads. I do note that the interior of the seating stem is not smooth & seems to have a "grainy or matte" texture. Is this normal?
Additionally, it makes no difference if I carefully align the bullet & ride it up into the seating die, or just plop it in the case mouth & don't support it as the ram is raised. I can adjust the cartridges on the Hornady Concentricity Tool easily to 1-2 thousandths but this is time consuming & tedious. It concerns me that this will adversely affect neck tension or loosen the crimp & cause bullet set back especially since I have to move the bullet so much.
My dies are set up exactly as you described. I use a variety of bullets: Armscor 62 gr, Nosler Varmageddon 62 gr, Sierra Match HPBT 69 gr & 77 gr. I don't use 55 gr bullets due to my fast twist barrel. The run out is the same with all of them. I just did a disassembly & lube of the press & used the alignment tool upon reassembly prior to this reloading session. The press functions flawlessly. I keep my dies clean. The run out measurements are very inconsistent, usually from 5-10 thousandths. Rarely, one will be 1 thousandth & sometimes as much as 13 thousandths.
I use once fired LC brass & keep it properly trimmed. All of the bullets mentioned above seat to a very consistent depth with OAL always being within 2 thousandths. I do not use compressed loads. I do note that the interior of the seating stem is not smooth & seems to have a "grainy or matte" texture. Is this normal?
Additionally, it makes no difference if I carefully align the bullet & ride it up into the seating die, or just plop it in the case mouth & don't support it as the ram is raised. I can adjust the cartridges on the Hornady Concentricity Tool easily to 1-2 thousandths but this is time consuming & tedious. It concerns me that this will adversely affect neck tension or loosen the crimp & cause bullet set back especially since I have to move the bullet so much.
Quote from Reloader on June 13, 2016, 3:29 pmPerform a couple of experiments please. First, remove the depriming assembly, and make sure the carbide expander ball can float a thousandth or so on the depriming pin. Back out the depriming pin as necessary to accomplish this. Then load a few rounds and check the runout.
Next, remove the carbide expander ball entirely and repeat. What I'm looking for is to see if the upper decap bolt is bent slightly.
Perform a couple of experiments please. First, remove the depriming assembly, and make sure the carbide expander ball can float a thousandth or so on the depriming pin. Back out the depriming pin as necessary to accomplish this. Then load a few rounds and check the runout.
Next, remove the carbide expander ball entirely and repeat. What I'm looking for is to see if the upper decap bolt is bent slightly.
Quote from Reloader on June 14, 2016, 9:50 pmI performed the test with & without the expander ball & it made no difference. The run out is still 5 to 10 thousandths. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the aftermarket screwed in tool head I'm using to keep OAL more consistent? I'm going to return to the original tool head & see if this makes a difference. I'll report back either way. Thanks for the previous suggestions & help. It is much appreciated.
I performed the test with & without the expander ball & it made no difference. The run out is still 5 to 10 thousandths. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the aftermarket screwed in tool head I'm using to keep OAL more consistent? I'm going to return to the original tool head & see if this makes a difference. I'll report back either way. Thanks for the previous suggestions & help. It is much appreciated.
Quote from Reloader on June 15, 2016, 2:54 amAs suspected, the main culprit to my run out issue was indeed a Uniquetek tool head. Once I went back to the Dillon tool head, the run out consistently decreased to 4-6 thousandths, and while not great, is certainly much improved. Interestingly, a Redding competition seating die I also have could only manage 3-5 thousandths with the bulk Armscor 62 gr FMJBT bullets I'm currently loading. The Dillon die compares very favorably to the much more expensive Redding die. I suspect the Sierra & Nosler bullets I have on hand will do much better.
As suspected, the main culprit to my run out issue was indeed a Uniquetek tool head. Once I went back to the Dillon tool head, the run out consistently decreased to 4-6 thousandths, and while not great, is certainly much improved. Interestingly, a Redding competition seating die I also have could only manage 3-5 thousandths with the bulk Armscor 62 gr FMJBT bullets I'm currently loading. The Dillon die compares very favorably to the much more expensive Redding die. I suspect the Sierra & Nosler bullets I have on hand will do much better.
Quote from Reloader on June 15, 2016, 3:55 pmOur experience has been that allowing the toolhead to float, combined with correct procedure when setting up dies, allows for more consistency.
Our experience has been that allowing the toolhead to float, combined with correct procedure when setting up dies, allows for more consistency.