Inconsistent powder drops.
Quote from Reloader on June 6, 2017, 2:45 pmMy equipment is: a twenty plus year-old Dillon 550b. I shoot everyday (seven days a week),in warm weather...a minimum of 72 rounds, somedays 144. The powder hopper is never emptied, I shoot, tumble the brass, and reload everyday...emptying the hopper makes not sense inasmuch as my reloading is a continuous, daily process.
My standard load for .38 Spl. a timed event (falling plates) is and has been, 1.7 grains of Bullseye under a 123 grain Lee round nose cast lead bullet. That combo has worked fine, ignition wise, for several years. ( I have also experiance inconsistent loads using the same bullet with Titegroup.) This year, starting when warm weather permitted shooting outside, I have experienced inconsistent powder charges, some resulting in stuck bullets in the barrel.
It seems obvious to me that the powder measure is not consistently dropping powder charges. Along with the apparent under loads, there will occasionally be a round with a sharper report and more recoil than norm.
When I perused the Dillon Forum relative to such under delivered powder charges, I have found the following advice:
1. Static electricity making the powder cling to the sides of the hopper. Remedy: Rub an anti-static fabric softener sheet inside the powder reservoir. I have done that.
2. Polish the tapered portion on the bottom of the powder hopper. I have done that.
3. Polish the top of the powder drop tube/flaring tube. I have done that.
4. Make sure that the powder bar is reaching full travel upon activation. I have done that.
5. Make sure that the small powder bar is installed. I have the small powder bar installed...the only one I ever use.
6. Install a Dillon low powder warning system. The extra weight on top of the powder helps with consistent charges. I have not done that yet...it will arrive today.
7. Tape a strip of dryer sheet to hang inside the powder hopper. I have doubts about doing that in regard to the low powder system...I don't know if it will have the clearance, nor am I convinced static electricity is the problem.
It is notable that when I removed the powder from the hopper to do the polishing and dryer sheet rubbing, when I tipped the hopper over to pour the powder back into its original container, the powder clung together and would not pour until I stirred it with a pencil (static cling or moisture?). Therefor, my problem seems to be powder clinging together and not falling into the charge cavity in the charge bar...but that does not explain why there is an occasional over charge as suggested by the unusually loud report and greater recoil...which suggests the problem is post-charge bar.
Has anyone experienced similar/same problem? Keep in mind that the problem did not manifest itself until this Spring (this year, the Spring was not unusually wet or dry).
I have considered adding a packet of desiccant to the powder but have never had any problem related to moisture in all the years I have been handloading (since early sixties), so moisture does not seem the likely cause.
My equipment is: a twenty plus year-old Dillon 550b. I shoot everyday (seven days a week),in warm weather...a minimum of 72 rounds, somedays 144. The powder hopper is never emptied, I shoot, tumble the brass, and reload everyday...emptying the hopper makes not sense inasmuch as my reloading is a continuous, daily process.
My standard load for .38 Spl. a timed event (falling plates) is and has been, 1.7 grains of Bullseye under a 123 grain Lee round nose cast lead bullet. That combo has worked fine, ignition wise, for several years. ( I have also experiance inconsistent loads using the same bullet with Titegroup.) This year, starting when warm weather permitted shooting outside, I have experienced inconsistent powder charges, some resulting in stuck bullets in the barrel.
It seems obvious to me that the powder measure is not consistently dropping powder charges. Along with the apparent under loads, there will occasionally be a round with a sharper report and more recoil than norm.
When I perused the Dillon Forum relative to such under delivered powder charges, I have found the following advice:
1. Static electricity making the powder cling to the sides of the hopper. Remedy: Rub an anti-static fabric softener sheet inside the powder reservoir. I have done that.
2. Polish the tapered portion on the bottom of the powder hopper. I have done that.
3. Polish the top of the powder drop tube/flaring tube. I have done that.
4. Make sure that the powder bar is reaching full travel upon activation. I have done that.
5. Make sure that the small powder bar is installed. I have the small powder bar installed...the only one I ever use.
6. Install a Dillon low powder warning system. The extra weight on top of the powder helps with consistent charges. I have not done that yet...it will arrive today.
7. Tape a strip of dryer sheet to hang inside the powder hopper. I have doubts about doing that in regard to the low powder system...I don't know if it will have the clearance, nor am I convinced static electricity is the problem.
It is notable that when I removed the powder from the hopper to do the polishing and dryer sheet rubbing, when I tipped the hopper over to pour the powder back into its original container, the powder clung together and would not pour until I stirred it with a pencil (static cling or moisture?). Therefor, my problem seems to be powder clinging together and not falling into the charge cavity in the charge bar...but that does not explain why there is an occasional over charge as suggested by the unusually loud report and greater recoil...which suggests the problem is post-charge bar.
Has anyone experienced similar/same problem? Keep in mind that the problem did not manifest itself until this Spring (this year, the Spring was not unusually wet or dry).
I have considered adding a packet of desiccant to the powder but have never had any problem related to moisture in all the years I have been handloading (since early sixties), so moisture does not seem the likely cause.
Quote from Reloader on June 6, 2017, 3:07 pm9. De-static the inside of the steel powder drop tube in the measure and the drop tube/flare in the powder die. I spun a rod with steel wool and bronze chore-boy inside both and then spun a piece of dryer-sheet in both.
In all, despite the nine "do's" above, the problem is worse than ever.
9. De-static the inside of the steel powder drop tube in the measure and the drop tube/flare in the powder die. I spun a rod with steel wool and bronze chore-boy inside both and then spun a piece of dryer-sheet in both.
In all, despite the nine "do's" above, the problem is worse than ever.
Quote from Reloader on June 6, 2017, 8:59 pmI know you say that you have used 1.7gr of Bullseye for years. But powder lots can change over time. A minimum load should be about 3gr. You are trying to run a load 1.3gr light of minimum charge. Odd things can happen with light loads. Pressures can sometimes jump up or down, depending on several factors. Bullseye is usually not as position sensitive as other powders, which is why I like to use it.
I would try checking a recent manual for load recommendations. Set the powder measure for the minimum listed. Run a bunch of charges though and see what they weigh. If the consistency comes back with the larger weights, I would try a load within the range recommended.
I know you say that you have used 1.7gr of Bullseye for years. But powder lots can change over time. A minimum load should be about 3gr. You are trying to run a load 1.3gr light of minimum charge. Odd things can happen with light loads. Pressures can sometimes jump up or down, depending on several factors. Bullseye is usually not as position sensitive as other powders, which is why I like to use it.
I would try checking a recent manual for load recommendations. Set the powder measure for the minimum listed. Run a bunch of charges though and see what they weigh. If the consistency comes back with the larger weights, I would try a load within the range recommended.
Quote from Reloader on June 6, 2017, 9:19 pm"I know you say that you have used 1.7gr of Bullseye for years. But powder lots can change over time. A minimum load should be about 3gr. You are trying to run a load 1.3gr light of minimum charge."
Whoops! I posted "1.7" grains of Bullseye in error...I use 2.8 grains of Bullseye, as per Lyman 49th, page 354, for 120 grain cast lead bullet. There does not seem to be an editing feature for corrections on this board.
"I know you say that you have used 1.7gr of Bullseye for years. But powder lots can change over time. A minimum load should be about 3gr. You are trying to run a load 1.3gr light of minimum charge."
Whoops! I posted "1.7" grains of Bullseye in error...I use 2.8 grains of Bullseye, as per Lyman 49th, page 354, for 120 grain cast lead bullet. There does not seem to be an editing feature for corrections on this board.
Quote from Reloader on June 7, 2017, 10:01 amWould a small silica dessicant pouch on top of your powder help? I'm not aware of silica off-gassing anythin that would harm the powder.
I'd probably put that powder back in the jug, get a new fresh jug and see if problem goes away.
Would a small silica dessicant pouch on top of your powder help? I'm not aware of silica off-gassing anythin that would harm the powder.
I'd probably put that powder back in the jug, get a new fresh jug and see if problem goes away.
Quote from Reloader on June 7, 2017, 11:35 am"Would a small silica dessicant pouch on top of your powder help? I'm not aware of silica off-gassing anythin that would harm the powder. "
I posted: "I have considered adding a packet of desiccant to the powder...""I'd probably put that powder back in the jug, get a new fresh jug and see if problem goes away." "Jug" = 8 lbs. After all, they only cost?
"Would a small silica dessicant pouch on top of your powder help? I'm not aware of silica off-gassing anythin that would harm the powder. "
I posted: "I have considered adding a packet of desiccant to the powder..."
"I'd probably put that powder back in the jug, get a new fresh jug and see if problem goes away." "Jug" = 8 lbs. After all, they only cost?
Quote from Reloader on June 7, 2017, 12:47 pmI addressed the possibility of a "bad" jug of powder in my original post when I posted: " ( I have also experiance inconsistent loads using the same bullet with Titegroup.) "
If the Titegroup powder was doing the same thing as my supply of Bullseye, then it is not likely a problem inherent with my Bullseye powder.
I addressed the possibility of a "bad" jug of powder in my original post when I posted: " ( I have also experiance inconsistent loads using the same bullet with Titegroup.) "
If the Titegroup powder was doing the same thing as my supply of Bullseye, then it is not likely a problem inherent with my Bullseye powder.
Quote from Reloader on June 7, 2017, 2:28 pmAn alternative to using an anti-static dryer sheet would be to use an aerosol anti-static product, or to rinse the powder hopper in soapy water, DO NOT rinse, and let air dry.
Also, cut a strip from an anti-static dryer sheet about 1/2" wide, put it down the inside of the hopper tube until it touches the inside of the metal base, and fold the excess over the outside and tape it in place. Then pour in your powder. It sounds more like the powder has developed a static charge. The kind folks at Hodgdon Powder Co. shared this with me, btw.
An alternative to using an anti-static dryer sheet would be to use an aerosol anti-static product, or to rinse the powder hopper in soapy water, DO NOT rinse, and let air dry.
Also, cut a strip from an anti-static dryer sheet about 1/2" wide, put it down the inside of the hopper tube until it touches the inside of the metal base, and fold the excess over the outside and tape it in place. Then pour in your powder. It sounds more like the powder has developed a static charge. The kind folks at Hodgdon Powder Co. shared this with me, btw.
Quote from Reloader on June 9, 2017, 6:39 pmMystery solved:
About two months ago, when the problems with squib loads and an occasional louder report and recoil with my standard loads, I had changed from Federal to Winchester small pistol primers (I had been using Federals for my double-action revolver shooting exclusively as my standard...until they (Federals), became almost impossible to find. Winchesters, however were still found on shelves in a plentiful supply. So, I just switched to Winchester until Federals became available again.It did not occur to me that the squibs could be the fault of the primers...I thought for sure it was my Dillon powder measure throwing inconsistent charges. Evidently, Winchester small pistol primers do not reliably ignite small charges of Bullsyet (2.8) in conjunction with a very light 123 grain 2R Lee bullets (very little of the bullet inside the case, maxing out the volume). I tried increasing the charge of Bullseye to 3.2 grains with the Winchesters and some would still would still squib (light "pffft", instead of "bang", but still exiting the barrel).
When I switched back to Federal standard small pistol primers with 2.7 of Bullseye, the reports were actually greater and sharper than Winchester with 3.2 of Bullseye. Having used Federal primers for so long (years), it never occurred to me that a change to another common brand of primer would make so much difference. My apologies if I have led people down the wrong track...consider that I am old (74), and it takes me longer to figure things out nowadays and I chase more Red Herrings than I used to.
In any event, I am back in business of shooting my steel bowling pins in my backyard range, practicing for the upcoming Falling Plates match at a local club.
Mystery solved:
About two months ago, when the problems with squib loads and an occasional louder report and recoil with my standard loads, I had changed from Federal to Winchester small pistol primers (I had been using Federals for my double-action revolver shooting exclusively as my standard...until they (Federals), became almost impossible to find. Winchesters, however were still found on shelves in a plentiful supply. So, I just switched to Winchester until Federals became available again.
It did not occur to me that the squibs could be the fault of the primers...I thought for sure it was my Dillon powder measure throwing inconsistent charges. Evidently, Winchester small pistol primers do not reliably ignite small charges of Bullsyet (2.8) in conjunction with a very light 123 grain 2R Lee bullets (very little of the bullet inside the case, maxing out the volume). I tried increasing the charge of Bullseye to 3.2 grains with the Winchesters and some would still would still squib (light "pffft", instead of "bang", but still exiting the barrel).
When I switched back to Federal standard small pistol primers with 2.7 of Bullseye, the reports were actually greater and sharper than Winchester with 3.2 of Bullseye. Having used Federal primers for so long (years), it never occurred to me that a change to another common brand of primer would make so much difference. My apologies if I have led people down the wrong track...consider that I am old (74), and it takes me longer to figure things out nowadays and I chase more Red Herrings than I used to.
In any event, I am back in business of shooting my steel bowling pins in my backyard range, practicing for the upcoming Falling Plates match at a local club.