Large primers
Quote from Reloader on February 6, 2013, 3:56 pmOK--maybe we over-looked something important-- 1) Are you changing to the "correct" primer slide (Large for Large primers & Small for small primers) each time you change from reloading the different calibers ? OR are you trying to take a short-cut and just changing the 'primer punch & seating cup' on the same primer slide ?? Probably not..?? So, #2 could be the reason...
If you are doing that, then your alignment for primer pick-up will be off...
2) Let's presume that you ARE changing the 'primer slide bars w/different primer size cups.. , then my question becomes.. Do you possibly have the Large primer slide with the Small primer punch & seating cup AND the Small primer slide with the Large primer punch & seating cup ?? (Does this make sense ?) My 'bars' don't appear to have any 'markings' on them-- as to which is the small or large primer slide.. but when I turn them over, the machined 'groove' in the Small primer slide has a slight 'curve' in it just before the primer punch set screw-- and my guess is that this is for 'correct' primer pick-up "alignment" for small primers. Then the Large primer slide 'groove' is straight, so it should be used with the Large primer punch & seating cap - ok ? If this is the case, then it should be an easy fix & with some minor adjustments of the cap screw for the primer slide, you should be good to go ! Hope that's it, huh ? BOL, azgriz
OK--maybe we over-looked something important-- 1) Are you changing to the "correct" primer slide (Large for Large primers & Small for small primers) each time you change from reloading the different calibers ? OR are you trying to take a short-cut and just changing the 'primer punch & seating cup' on the same primer slide ?? Probably not..?? So, #2 could be the reason...
If you are doing that, then your alignment for primer pick-up will be off...
2) Let's presume that you ARE changing the 'primer slide bars w/different primer size cups.. , then my question becomes.. Do you possibly have the Large primer slide with the Small primer punch & seating cup AND the Small primer slide with the Large primer punch & seating cup ?? (Does this make sense ?) My 'bars' don't appear to have any 'markings' on them-- as to which is the small or large primer slide.. but when I turn them over, the machined 'groove' in the Small primer slide has a slight 'curve' in it just before the primer punch set screw-- and my guess is that this is for 'correct' primer pick-up "alignment" for small primers. Then the Large primer slide 'groove' is straight, so it should be used with the Large primer punch & seating cap - ok ? If this is the case, then it should be an easy fix & with some minor adjustments of the cap screw for the primer slide, you should be good to go ! Hope that's it, huh ? BOL, azgriz
Quote from Reloader on February 7, 2013, 1:13 pmWhen I got my 550B I ordered a toolhead setup for each caliber. So, to change from say 9mm to 45 acp, I just replace the toolhead and the small to large primer slide plus the tubes. Once I setup a toolhead for a caliber, I am ready for that bullet.
The primer slides are right. I would think that I would see many problems if I had the wrong slide but I know they are correct. Thanks
When I got my 550B I ordered a toolhead setup for each caliber. So, to change from say 9mm to 45 acp, I just replace the toolhead and the small to large primer slide plus the tubes. Once I setup a toolhead for a caliber, I am ready for that bullet.
The primer slides are right. I would think that I would see many problems if I had the wrong slide but I know they are correct. Thanks
Quote from Reloader on February 7, 2013, 7:06 pmAlright dillon999, I've reviewed all of your postings re: this primer problem/issue & it sounds like since ~June 2012, this has been an issue. Was your machine working ok when you first bought it & started reloading ? It was my understanding that Dillon set up the RL550B machines to be shipped already adjusted for 'Large primers', unless that has changed? But for all practical purposes, let's presume your machine was not, and you didn't make any major or finite adjustments to the primer feed process, and
you said the primer slide bars and cups(L & S) are correctly matched(I trust you). So,
my suggestions: 1)remove black plastic tips from each(L&S) primer magazine tubes and 'roll' them on a flat surface to check if they are straight; 2) if they're ok, replace tips & fill them with say ~50+ primers,put small piece cloth/paper towel in bottom of a cup, put your finger over open end(top) of tube & invert, then remove black plastic tip and put finger from free hand over that opening,invert over cup and remove finger--? all of the primers should free flow out of tube onto cloth/paper towel..ok.
If this all ck's, then primer magazine tubes should be fine. 3) I know you know that the 'primer punch' has a machined grove in it for the set screw, so make sure you loosen the set screw and compress the primer cup enough to seat the 'punch' deep enough to tighten the set screw into the groove.(yea, it's elementary!) 4) Now, put an empty primer magazine tube(same size as primer cup) into machine and tighten shield cap- then pull handle down & watch primer slide go into pickup
a new primer-leave handle down & look with flashlight to see if top of primer cup is aligned perfectly under black tip of magazine tube & about 1/32" clearance-Now, if it is not exactly/perfectly under the primer drop tip, then you need to get
your allen wrench and adjust the "set screw' just below the bottom of the primer feed stop spring--(this is how you adjust primer cup position for pickup & should
have been done by Dillon tech people). Note: top of primer cup should not touch the black dispensing tip! * NOW, YOU CAN LOAD A FEW PRIMERS INTO THE TUBE
AND RUN A FEW CYCLES(prime a few cases or manually remove primers from cup)
and hopefully, this is the adjustment you needed (& magazine tubes are ok)
--> I apologize for the process & details, but I tried to explain it how I would approach it, but not knowing your level of experience with the machine.. most people probably never do this last adjustment & set screw is somewhat hidden.
(If you don't get the cup clearance let me know- 2 ways to fix it) BOL, azgriz
Alright dillon999, I've reviewed all of your postings re: this primer problem/issue & it sounds like since ~June 2012, this has been an issue. Was your machine working ok when you first bought it & started reloading ? It was my understanding that Dillon set up the RL550B machines to be shipped already adjusted for 'Large primers', unless that has changed? But for all practical purposes, let's presume your machine was not, and you didn't make any major or finite adjustments to the primer feed process, and
you said the primer slide bars and cups(L & S) are correctly matched(I trust you). So,
my suggestions: 1)remove black plastic tips from each(L&S) primer magazine tubes and 'roll' them on a flat surface to check if they are straight; 2) if they're ok, replace tips & fill them with say ~50+ primers,put small piece cloth/paper towel in bottom of a cup, put your finger over open end(top) of tube & invert, then remove black plastic tip and put finger from free hand over that opening,invert over cup and remove finger--? all of the primers should free flow out of tube onto cloth/paper towel..ok.
If this all ck's, then primer magazine tubes should be fine. 3) I know you know that the 'primer punch' has a machined grove in it for the set screw, so make sure you loosen the set screw and compress the primer cup enough to seat the 'punch' deep enough to tighten the set screw into the groove.(yea, it's elementary!) 4) Now, put an empty primer magazine tube(same size as primer cup) into machine and tighten shield cap- then pull handle down & watch primer slide go into pickup
a new primer-leave handle down & look with flashlight to see if top of primer cup is aligned perfectly under black tip of magazine tube & about 1/32" clearance-Now, if it is not exactly/perfectly under the primer drop tip, then you need to get
your allen wrench and adjust the "set screw' just below the bottom of the primer feed stop spring--(this is how you adjust primer cup position for pickup & should
have been done by Dillon tech people). Note: top of primer cup should not touch the black dispensing tip! * NOW, YOU CAN LOAD A FEW PRIMERS INTO THE TUBE
AND RUN A FEW CYCLES(prime a few cases or manually remove primers from cup)
and hopefully, this is the adjustment you needed (& magazine tubes are ok)
--> I apologize for the process & details, but I tried to explain it how I would approach it, but not knowing your level of experience with the machine.. most people probably never do this last adjustment & set screw is somewhat hidden.
(If you don't get the cup clearance let me know- 2 ways to fix it) BOL, azgriz
Quote from Reloader on February 8, 2013, 12:11 pmBefore I get into this I appreciate your effort, not too many people would stick in there like you have.
Yes, it seems I have been working on the primer system since day one. I have read every post on this site and others and didn't start my questioning until 6/2012. I have done the cup height check with a mic as suggested by Dillon and the cup came from the factory at the correct height. It does ship with the large primer setup but I started with 9mm so I had to change over to small.
Just so you know, sounds like Dillon has color coded the tips on both magazine and pickup tubes since you got your machine. The tips are not black but small has one yellow for one tube and another color for the magazine tube, large has a different scheme.
I have looked down the magazine tube and things seem to line up. But, sounds like you and I got to the same point. The next time I clean the 550B I am going to take the tubes to a table and see if they are flat, especially the large primer system. Thanks again....
Before I get into this I appreciate your effort, not too many people would stick in there like you have.
Yes, it seems I have been working on the primer system since day one. I have read every post on this site and others and didn't start my questioning until 6/2012. I have done the cup height check with a mic as suggested by Dillon and the cup came from the factory at the correct height. It does ship with the large primer setup but I started with 9mm so I had to change over to small.
Just so you know, sounds like Dillon has color coded the tips on both magazine and pickup tubes since you got your machine. The tips are not black but small has one yellow for one tube and another color for the magazine tube, large has a different scheme.
I have looked down the magazine tube and things seem to line up. But, sounds like you and I got to the same point. The next time I clean the 550B I am going to take the tubes to a table and see if they are flat, especially the large primer system. Thanks again....
Quote from Reloader on February 8, 2013, 5:20 pm*Thank you for acknowledging the help.. I also appreciate that, but we are not done until you get it fixed--ok. And for telling me about Dillon changing the 'tip' colors-- I figured they did because I purchase a small parts kit about 5 yrs ago when I moved from AZ to CO & noticed them in the bag; but I've never had to use anything from the kit yet-- I bought it just in case... because I moved & didn't want any down time if something simple needed replacing. It's cheap 'insurance' & suggest you buy one if you don't already have one. Now, back to your machine.. I hope you focused on the 'hidden-set-screw adjustment' I mentioned, because that alone might solve your primer pick-up problem. If it is just slightly off, then the next primer won't fall directly into the primer cup. (Another thing I would suggest is that you 'mic' the dia. of both of your large & small primer cups at the large shoulder to make sure they are the same diameter & your adjustment should then be fine when you change primer slides. Mine mic out @ 0.4287; & large primer cup "inside" diameter is 0.216 & it should be perfectly 'round' (hopefully not bent or egg-shaped). Mic a few Large primers & they should be FYI- I also left you a response on your 38 special posting.
*Thank you for acknowledging the help.. I also appreciate that, but we are not done until you get it fixed--ok. And for telling me about Dillon changing the 'tip' colors-- I figured they did because I purchase a small parts kit about 5 yrs ago when I moved from AZ to CO & noticed them in the bag; but I've never had to use anything from the kit yet-- I bought it just in case... because I moved & didn't want any down time if something simple needed replacing. It's cheap 'insurance' & suggest you buy one if you don't already have one. Now, back to your machine.. I hope you focused on the 'hidden-set-screw adjustment' I mentioned, because that alone might solve your primer pick-up problem. If it is just slightly off, then the next primer won't fall directly into the primer cup. (Another thing I would suggest is that you 'mic' the dia. of both of your large & small primer cups at the large shoulder to make sure they are the same diameter & your adjustment should then be fine when you change primer slides. Mine mic out @ 0.4287; & large primer cup "inside" diameter is 0.216 & it should be perfectly 'round' (hopefully not bent or egg-shaped). Mic a few Large primers & they should be FYI- I also left you a response on your 38 special posting.
Quote from Reloader on February 9, 2013, 11:22 amGot company coming for two weeks so reloading is on hold. I think the hidden set screw you refer to is part 13996 on the 550B, use the manual section on this site if you don't have one. Both of my primer cups are within the 1.215 to 1.220 range Dillon states on page 5 as shipped from the factory. I am going to focus on the tubes maybe out of round, an occasional primer out of round as Dillon states and/or junk from the depriming falling on the slide.
Thanks for the 38 special post. I see this same left over flakes when I use 45 acp casings that need a small primer. Same powder drop in a large primer casing is fine but in a small I get flakes. Not a big fan of small primer 45 casings, usually give them away.
Got company coming for two weeks so reloading is on hold. I think the hidden set screw you refer to is part 13996 on the 550B, use the manual section on this site if you don't have one. Both of my primer cups are within the 1.215 to 1.220 range Dillon states on page 5 as shipped from the factory. I am going to focus on the tubes maybe out of round, an occasional primer out of round as Dillon states and/or junk from the depriming falling on the slide.
Thanks for the 38 special post. I see this same left over flakes when I use 45 acp casings that need a small primer. Same powder drop in a large primer casing is fine but in a small I get flakes. Not a big fan of small primer 45 casings, usually give them away.
Quote from Reloader on February 9, 2013, 5:00 pmNot a problem re: the company situation-- I've seen that movie before... when I use to have my bench in the 'spare' bedroom & Mother in law would visit.. I just covered it all up & told her not to 'play' with it-- it wasn't a slot machine !
--> I presume your manual contains more info. than mine, since Dillon has many updates & new parts/machines- mine is only 14 pages & part # is #500; but is located just at bottom of the 'primer feed stop spring'- it controls the 'outward' movement of the 'primer pick-up cup' (That's why I suggested checking the diameter of each cup, so adjustments wouldn't be needed when you changed slide bars--
--> You are correct about the primer cup 'heights' (from bottom of slide bar to top of the primer cup).
--> As for the small primer 45ACP's, I'd probably try a few 'test loads' with some
small magnium pistol primers ? and/or compare the 'flash hole' size vs size in the
large primer cases-- & also look for any 'burrs' at flash hole inside the small primer cases-? (You want a good primer flash/ignition-- if you're goosey about it, then just drop your powder down 0.3-0.5 grains-- but in 45 auto, I doubt you'll notice & all you're doing is 'testing for more complete powder burn' & for 'grins')
-->One thing you didn't indicate, unless I missed it ? Is where you live and what the temperature is where you are shooting- with some powders, especially rifle
loads.. it can make a difference in colder climates.) Enuf-enjoy your company !
Not a problem re: the company situation-- I've seen that movie before... when I use to have my bench in the 'spare' bedroom & Mother in law would visit.. I just covered it all up & told her not to 'play' with it-- it wasn't a slot machine !
--> I presume your manual contains more info. than mine, since Dillon has many updates & new parts/machines- mine is only 14 pages & part # is #500; but is located just at bottom of the 'primer feed stop spring'- it controls the 'outward' movement of the 'primer pick-up cup' (That's why I suggested checking the diameter of each cup, so adjustments wouldn't be needed when you changed slide bars--
--> You are correct about the primer cup 'heights' (from bottom of slide bar to top of the primer cup).
--> As for the small primer 45ACP's, I'd probably try a few 'test loads' with some
small magnium pistol primers ? and/or compare the 'flash hole' size vs size in the
large primer cases-- & also look for any 'burrs' at flash hole inside the small primer cases-? (You want a good primer flash/ignition-- if you're goosey about it, then just drop your powder down 0.3-0.5 grains-- but in 45 auto, I doubt you'll notice & all you're doing is 'testing for more complete powder burn' & for 'grins')
-->One thing you didn't indicate, unless I missed it ? Is where you live and what the temperature is where you are shooting- with some powders, especially rifle
loads.. it can make a difference in colder climates.) Enuf-enjoy your company !
Quote from Reloader on March 9, 2013, 1:16 pmOkay I finally got back to this last week. I took the 550B apart as much as possible and cleaned everything. Then I lubed what was called for by Dillon. Then I did all the adjustments and checked the tolerances that are documented. The only thing I adjusted was to bend the rod to put more pull back pressure on the primer slide. As I loaded, I kept the slide bar free of stuff that seems to fall from the depriming process.
I then loaded 150 9mm and 150 45 acp bullets. The small slide failed on one load, about the 120 pull. In fact the primer was found in the finished bullet tray, probably flipped there.
The large primer system failed twice in 150 pulls. Loading primers into the magazine is still not smooth but tolerable.
So, this is what I have to live with and I am okay with that as long as I catch the misses before the powder drops, I hate that.
Thanks for all who responded but as the bumper sticker says "Things happen"
Okay I finally got back to this last week. I took the 550B apart as much as possible and cleaned everything. Then I lubed what was called for by Dillon. Then I did all the adjustments and checked the tolerances that are documented. The only thing I adjusted was to bend the rod to put more pull back pressure on the primer slide. As I loaded, I kept the slide bar free of stuff that seems to fall from the depriming process.
I then loaded 150 9mm and 150 45 acp bullets. The small slide failed on one load, about the 120 pull. In fact the primer was found in the finished bullet tray, probably flipped there.
The large primer system failed twice in 150 pulls. Loading primers into the magazine is still not smooth but tolerable.
So, this is what I have to live with and I am okay with that as long as I catch the misses before the powder drops, I hate that.
Thanks for all who responded but as the bumper sticker says "Things happen"