Primer cup blocking seating
Quote from Reloader on March 26, 2012, 7:49 pmI've stumped phone support with this problem for several days. My primers will not consistently seat. It is not the brass (I opened up a pack of new Winchester brass). It is not the primers (same thing happens using both Winchester and Federal primers.) I can sometimes (maybe 2 out of 5 times) feel a little "click" and then the primers will seat. Other times, the primers do not seat at all and the handle does not hit against the back stop of the machine body.
What appears to be the problem is that the primer cup must be sitting up a little tall at stage 2, thus not allowing the because when the case advances from stage 1, the handle WILL NOT hit against the body of the Square Deal B. With no shell case in station 1, I can ease back on the handle and the cup falls below the level of the shell plate, allowing me to push up on the handle and seat the primer. But, I can't do this is there is a shell case in station 1.
The measure of the slide assembly is within 1.410" (still tough to get that right!). The shell plate is screwed down tight. The detent ball and spring are in place. I've taken off the powder measure and I can see the primer cup appears to be centered.
Now, perhaps a related problem (certainly a frustrating one) is that even though the primer slide assembly is within the 1.410" tolerance, it is still too short to push against the blue tip of the small primer tube to make the primers fall out.
This Square Deal B just got back from being repaired at Dillon for a crack in the body.
Clint Johnson
I've stumped phone support with this problem for several days. My primers will not consistently seat. It is not the brass (I opened up a pack of new Winchester brass). It is not the primers (same thing happens using both Winchester and Federal primers.) I can sometimes (maybe 2 out of 5 times) feel a little "click" and then the primers will seat. Other times, the primers do not seat at all and the handle does not hit against the back stop of the machine body.
What appears to be the problem is that the primer cup must be sitting up a little tall at stage 2, thus not allowing the because when the case advances from stage 1, the handle WILL NOT hit against the body of the Square Deal B. With no shell case in station 1, I can ease back on the handle and the cup falls below the level of the shell plate, allowing me to push up on the handle and seat the primer. But, I can't do this is there is a shell case in station 1.
The measure of the slide assembly is within 1.410" (still tough to get that right!). The shell plate is screwed down tight. The detent ball and spring are in place. I've taken off the powder measure and I can see the primer cup appears to be centered.
Now, perhaps a related problem (certainly a frustrating one) is that even though the primer slide assembly is within the 1.410" tolerance, it is still too short to push against the blue tip of the small primer tube to make the primers fall out.
This Square Deal B just got back from being repaired at Dillon for a crack in the body.
Clint Johnson
Quote from Reloader on March 27, 2012, 2:51 pmThe handle is not supposed to contact the frame when you push the handle forward to seat a primer. What caliber are you loading? What is the headstamp on the specific cses where primers won't seat?
The primer should freely fall through the blue tip at the bottom of the magazine tube. The primer cup does not contact the blue tip at all, it pushes the white pin out to allow a primer to drop into the cup.
Without any brass in the shellplate, pull the handle down, then lift it up to the normal at-rest position. look down through the hole in the shellplate, and see if the primer is aligned with the hole or not. If not, see if the shellplate is indexed to the detent ball. If it is, then there is a set screw under the primer slide that aligns the cup with the hole in the shellplate.
The handle is not supposed to contact the frame when you push the handle forward to seat a primer. What caliber are you loading? What is the headstamp on the specific cses where primers won't seat?
The primer should freely fall through the blue tip at the bottom of the magazine tube. The primer cup does not contact the blue tip at all, it pushes the white pin out to allow a primer to drop into the cup.
Without any brass in the shellplate, pull the handle down, then lift it up to the normal at-rest position. look down through the hole in the shellplate, and see if the primer is aligned with the hole or not. If not, see if the shellplate is indexed to the detent ball. If it is, then there is a set screw under the primer slide that aligns the cup with the hole in the shellplate.
Quote from Reloader on March 27, 2012, 6:37 pmI am loading .38 Specials with new Winchester brass, though the problem has been with all brass. I switched out the shell plate, primer system, and toolhead from .45Long Colt when the problems started. I have looked through the powder hole and I can see the primer cup. It appears to be centered.
On the primer problem, the primers are getting stuck in the blue tip, which is brand new out of my spare parts bag. I will push some through it to see if that loosens up the tip.
On the primers not seating problem, I can seat a primer in station #2 if I put in a primer by hand and push up on the handle. If I put in a case in station #2 and cycle it to station #2, the handle STOPS short of seating the primer, as if it is catching on something hard. When I continue the cycle to station #3, I can pull out the brass and nothing has been seated, the primer is still in the cup.
When cycling the handle up and down looking for problems, it seems like the shell plate eases up just slightly, with the visual effect that the shell plate is slightly higher at station #2 than it should be. If this is true, then maybe that explains why the handle stops; the shell plate is hitting the bottom edge of the shell case rather than gliding over it and allowing the primer to seat. The shell plate is screwed down tight. The wire over the shell plate is inserted at about the 10:00 o clock position. The detent ball and spring are in place under the shell plate. Is there any adjustment I can make to test the idea that the body of the reloader is "riding up" slightly and pushing the shell plate higher, thus hitting the edge of the shell casing?
I am loading .38 Specials with new Winchester brass, though the problem has been with all brass. I switched out the shell plate, primer system, and toolhead from .45Long Colt when the problems started. I have looked through the powder hole and I can see the primer cup. It appears to be centered.
On the primer problem, the primers are getting stuck in the blue tip, which is brand new out of my spare parts bag. I will push some through it to see if that loosens up the tip.
On the primers not seating problem, I can seat a primer in station #2 if I put in a primer by hand and push up on the handle. If I put in a case in station #2 and cycle it to station #2, the handle STOPS short of seating the primer, as if it is catching on something hard. When I continue the cycle to station #3, I can pull out the brass and nothing has been seated, the primer is still in the cup.
When cycling the handle up and down looking for problems, it seems like the shell plate eases up just slightly, with the visual effect that the shell plate is slightly higher at station #2 than it should be. If this is true, then maybe that explains why the handle stops; the shell plate is hitting the bottom edge of the shell case rather than gliding over it and allowing the primer to seat. The shell plate is screwed down tight. The wire over the shell plate is inserted at about the 10:00 o clock position. The detent ball and spring are in place under the shell plate. Is there any adjustment I can make to test the idea that the body of the reloader is "riding up" slightly and pushing the shell plate higher, thus hitting the edge of the shell casing?
Quote from Reloader on March 27, 2012, 8:10 pmDillon, by staring at the reloader long enough and cycling the handle, and then trying to place a shell case in station #2, I can confirm that when cycling a case from station #1 to station #2, the primer cup does stick up slightly more than it should at station #2 when the case from #1 gets to #2.
If I slightly pull back on the handle, the cup goes down to where it belongs, but if you don't pull down on the handle, the cup stays up just enough that you can't easily slide a shell casing into station #2.
How and what do I adjust to make sure the cup stays below the level of the shell plate at station #2? The primer slide assembly is at 1.410".
Dillon, by staring at the reloader long enough and cycling the handle, and then trying to place a shell case in station #2, I can confirm that when cycling a case from station #1 to station #2, the primer cup does stick up slightly more than it should at station #2 when the case from #1 gets to #2.
If I slightly pull back on the handle, the cup goes down to where it belongs, but if you don't pull down on the handle, the cup stays up just enough that you can't easily slide a shell casing into station #2.
How and what do I adjust to make sure the cup stays below the level of the shell plate at station #2? The primer slide assembly is at 1.410".
Quote from Reloader on March 28, 2012, 2:48 pmI suspect the problem is either the alignment of the primer slide with the hole in the shellplate, or the shellplate is not being indexed around quite far enough. Both are simple set screw adjustments.
To test the shellplate, pull the handle down far enough for the index lever to click to the left. Put light downward pressure with your left thumb onto the top of the shellplte. While maintaining this light pressure, lift the handle up to the normal at rest position. Now see if the shellplate is locked in position by the detent ball, or if the shellplate has to rotate a bit further for the detent ball to click into place. If this is the case, then back out the set screw #13789 1/4 to 1/2 turn. This set screw is located on the upper right side of the main ram, towards the back. It stops the index lever from going too far.
If the shllplate is indexing properly, then remove the powder measure and withdraw the powder funnel from the top of the powder die at station two. Cycle the handle down, then lift it up the the normal at-rest position. Wearing safety glasses, look straight down through the powder die; see if the primer cup is lined up with the hole in the shellplate that the primer comes up through. There is a set screw #13961b, located underneath the primer slide, just above the primer slide return spring. If the primer cup goes in too far, back this sest screw out 1/8 to 1/4 turn. If the cup does not go in far enough, turn the set screw in 1/8 to 1/4 turn.
I suspect the problem is either the alignment of the primer slide with the hole in the shellplate, or the shellplate is not being indexed around quite far enough. Both are simple set screw adjustments.
To test the shellplate, pull the handle down far enough for the index lever to click to the left. Put light downward pressure with your left thumb onto the top of the shellplte. While maintaining this light pressure, lift the handle up to the normal at rest position. Now see if the shellplate is locked in position by the detent ball, or if the shellplate has to rotate a bit further for the detent ball to click into place. If this is the case, then back out the set screw #13789 1/4 to 1/2 turn. This set screw is located on the upper right side of the main ram, towards the back. It stops the index lever from going too far.
If the shllplate is indexing properly, then remove the powder measure and withdraw the powder funnel from the top of the powder die at station two. Cycle the handle down, then lift it up the the normal at-rest position. Wearing safety glasses, look straight down through the powder die; see if the primer cup is lined up with the hole in the shellplate that the primer comes up through. There is a set screw #13961b, located underneath the primer slide, just above the primer slide return spring. If the primer cup goes in too far, back this sest screw out 1/8 to 1/4 turn. If the cup does not go in far enough, turn the set screw in 1/8 to 1/4 turn.