Why manual index?
Quote from Reloader on December 24, 2017, 1:58 pmI've been reading around the Internet (a dangerous thing to do, I know) in an attempt to decide on the right Dillon machine for me. I only shoot pistol (9mm and 45 ACP) and probably shoot "just" 4,000–5,000 rounds per year.
The 550 looks "right," but does not have automatic indexing. The Square Deal also looks "right," but might be a little confined in the working area under the dies (I'm about of average size: 6', 185#, average size hands).
Lots of folks explain away the lack of auto-indexing by saying things such as:
• It's easier to develop new loads
• Auto-indexing unnecessarily complicates the machine
• Manual indexing provides more "control" (whatever that means)How much of that is real and how much is an attempt to defend a design shortcoming?
Why in the world would one NOT want auto-indexing on a progressive press?
I've been reading around the Internet (a dangerous thing to do, I know) in an attempt to decide on the right Dillon machine for me. I only shoot pistol (9mm and 45 ACP) and probably shoot "just" 4,000–5,000 rounds per year.
The 550 looks "right," but does not have automatic indexing. The Square Deal also looks "right," but might be a little confined in the working area under the dies (I'm about of average size: 6', 185#, average size hands).
Lots of folks explain away the lack of auto-indexing by saying things such as:
• It's easier to develop new loads
• Auto-indexing unnecessarily complicates the machine
• Manual indexing provides more "control" (whatever that means)
How much of that is real and how much is an attempt to defend a design shortcoming?
Why in the world would one NOT want auto-indexing on a progressive press?
Quote from Reloader on December 26, 2017, 2:30 amI am also trying to decide. 550 or 650 that is the question of the day. Personnaly I am leaning toward the 550.
I am also trying to decide. 550 or 650 that is the question of the day. Personnaly I am leaning toward the 550.
Quote from Reloader on December 26, 2017, 1:08 pmGo with the 650. I started with the 650 and have been very happy with it. Kind of sorry that I did not go with the 1050. Mainly because of the swaging feature.
Go with the 650. I started with the 650 and have been very happy with it. Kind of sorry that I did not go with the 1050. Mainly because of the swaging feature.
Quote from Reloader on December 26, 2017, 1:47 pmMy SDB made good ammo. But it was just a bit cramped for space with my hands. I wear an XL size glove. But it worked.
I chose to go with the XL650 next. Very happy with that choice. More room to work. I do not do any rifle on it, but I can in the future. I gained a powder lock-out station for an additional powder level check in addition to my visual check.
With automation comes complication. Just think things though. If you have a problem, stop and make sure you are solving all that needs to be dealt with. Go slow. And slow down some more. You will get more accurate powder throws and still make lots of ammo. Be sure to follow the manual. And lubricate the pivots and sliding surfaces. Info in the manual. But also in posts on this forum. I make notes in my manual.
With the manual index models, your hands are already down there. Feeding bullets. It's just training your hands. Muscle memory. It may be easier to clear a problem. You still have an advantage over doing everything on a single-stage press.
My SDB made good ammo. But it was just a bit cramped for space with my hands. I wear an XL size glove. But it worked.
I chose to go with the XL650 next. Very happy with that choice. More room to work. I do not do any rifle on it, but I can in the future. I gained a powder lock-out station for an additional powder level check in addition to my visual check.
With automation comes complication. Just think things though. If you have a problem, stop and make sure you are solving all that needs to be dealt with. Go slow. And slow down some more. You will get more accurate powder throws and still make lots of ammo. Be sure to follow the manual. And lubricate the pivots and sliding surfaces. Info in the manual. But also in posts on this forum. I make notes in my manual.
With the manual index models, your hands are already down there. Feeding bullets. It's just training your hands. Muscle memory. It may be easier to clear a problem. You still have an advantage over doing everything on a single-stage press.
Quote from Reloader on December 26, 2017, 2:37 pmFor automatic indexing, it requires about 25% of the stroke length to rotate the shellplate. All other things being equal, you can load a longer cartridge on a manually-indexed machine than on an auto-indexed machine.
Additionally, manual indexing is easier to learn in that you can feed a single case into the shellplate, run it through the various stations to load it, then insert the next piece of brass. Once you are comfortable with all the steps, then you use the machine in a progressive manner.
For automatic indexing, it requires about 25% of the stroke length to rotate the shellplate. All other things being equal, you can load a longer cartridge on a manually-indexed machine than on an auto-indexed machine.
Additionally, manual indexing is easier to learn in that you can feed a single case into the shellplate, run it through the various stations to load it, then insert the next piece of brass. Once you are comfortable with all the steps, then you use the machine in a progressive manner.
Quote from Reloader on December 28, 2017, 10:34 pmBeen using my 550 for about 32 years and manual indexing is just part of the process, I don't even notice that I do it. It only takes a swipe of my thumb. But I do believe it's easier to fix a problem. Just my 2 cents.
Been using my 550 for about 32 years and manual indexing is just part of the process, I don't even notice that I do it. It only takes a swipe of my thumb. But I do believe it's easier to fix a problem. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from Reloader on January 6, 2018, 1:36 amTotal agree. I reload 9mm and 45acp as my main cartridges and love my 550b's. Yes that's right I have one dedicated to each caliber. 45ACP is large primer and 9mm is small primer. So I basically have a small primer 550b and a large primer 550b setup.
Ive had some issues with each machine when I first bought them, mainly the ram was not aligned correctly. But after alignment is done they feed like butter. I enjoy the process of reloading and usually will sit down and do 200 rounds in an hour and then call it a night. So 200 rounds times 7 days a week =1400 rounds. The 550b pumps out plenty of ammo for casual/frequent shooters. If you are a competition shooter or shoot daily I could see the 650 as a good choice.
Total agree. I reload 9mm and 45acp as my main cartridges and love my 550b's. Yes that's right I have one dedicated to each caliber. 45ACP is large primer and 9mm is small primer. So I basically have a small primer 550b and a large primer 550b setup.
Ive had some issues with each machine when I first bought them, mainly the ram was not aligned correctly. But after alignment is done they feed like butter. I enjoy the process of reloading and usually will sit down and do 200 rounds in an hour and then call it a night. So 200 rounds times 7 days a week =1400 rounds. The 550b pumps out plenty of ammo for casual/frequent shooters. If you are a competition shooter or shoot daily I could see the 650 as a good choice.
Quote from Reloader on January 11, 2018, 9:58 pmI started on a 550B and have really liked it. Now I am doing some rifle rounds and it doesn't work with the casefeed attached. If I were starting again, I would probably lean towards the 650. I don't shoot enough to justify a 1050 even though I would love the swage function. Instead I just bought the super swage 600 and have to handle the rounds more. Maybe one day I'll sell the 550 and upgrade to the 650.... but I just have a hard time letting go of my awesome machine!
Keep in mind that if you go with the case feed, the caliber conversion is only 5$ more for the 650 than the 550. So don't let the cost be the deciding factor.
I started on a 550B and have really liked it. Now I am doing some rifle rounds and it doesn't work with the casefeed attached. If I were starting again, I would probably lean towards the 650. I don't shoot enough to justify a 1050 even though I would love the swage function. Instead I just bought the super swage 600 and have to handle the rounds more. Maybe one day I'll sell the 550 and upgrade to the 650.... but I just have a hard time letting go of my awesome machine!
Keep in mind that if you go with the case feed, the caliber conversion is only 5$ more for the 650 than the 550. So don't let the cost be the deciding factor.
Quote from Reloader on January 20, 2018, 7:03 amI've used a few auto-indexed presses. The thing is... I like the 550 more. Auto-index has more going on, so you'll get more foul-ups. I used to run into constant problems because they're more complicated. It's a lot easier on the 550. I'm actually pumping out more ammo instead of constantly fixing problems.
I've used a few auto-indexed presses. The thing is... I like the 550 more. Auto-index has more going on, so you'll get more foul-ups. I used to run into constant problems because they're more complicated. It's a lot easier on the 550. I'm actually pumping out more ammo instead of constantly fixing problems.
Quote from Reloader on February 18, 2018, 12:13 amI love my 550B. I've been using it for almost 35 years. 9mm, 38-357mag, 44mag, 45ACP, 30.06, and now .223. I just installed the case feeder, and I am doing .223 with it now. Easy conversion to the other calibers, except for the 30.06. I have to tie back the case feeder, and manually stick a 30.06 case in the shell plate holder. Since I don't load that many '06's at a time, I don't mind the slight inconvenience. (actually I haven't even done any 30.06 since I put the case feeder on. I just did a dry run to see how it would work)
I love my 550B. I've been using it for almost 35 years. 9mm, 38-357mag, 44mag, 45ACP, 30.06, and now .223. I just installed the case feeder, and I am doing .223 with it now. Easy conversion to the other calibers, except for the 30.06. I have to tie back the case feeder, and manually stick a 30.06 case in the shell plate holder. Since I don't load that many '06's at a time, I don't mind the slight inconvenience. (actually I haven't even done any 30.06 since I put the case feeder on. I just did a dry run to see how it would work)