XL 650 Sticking Problems
Quote from Reloader on March 25, 2017, 3:45 pmLizard, that sounds like your crimp is too heavy. You want just a tiny bit (like .001", get a set of calipers, even Harbor Freight is good enough) more crimp than removing all the belling for autoloading pistol rounds like your 45ACP. Some occasional shiny brass at the mouth is normal but regular shavings is not.
The OP: Could also be the shell sticking on the feed slot. When mine was dropping cases too early they would bounce or shift. On the upstroke the case is to be pushed forward into the shellplate but it would catch slightly. Since that whole assembly that pushes the case forward to the shellplate is spring loaded, it would catch and then pop as the spring snapped the assembly forward. Voila, noticeable thunk on each upstroke.
Lizard, that sounds like your crimp is too heavy. You want just a tiny bit (like .001", get a set of calipers, even Harbor Freight is good enough) more crimp than removing all the belling for autoloading pistol rounds like your 45ACP. Some occasional shiny brass at the mouth is normal but regular shavings is not.
The OP: Could also be the shell sticking on the feed slot. When mine was dropping cases too early they would bounce or shift. On the upstroke the case is to be pushed forward into the shellplate but it would catch slightly. Since that whole assembly that pushes the case forward to the shellplate is spring loaded, it would catch and then pop as the spring snapped the assembly forward. Voila, noticeable thunk on each upstroke.
Quote from Reloader on March 25, 2017, 4:47 pmI went through the set up again last night and ended up playing with just 2 functions, the mouth case bell and the crimp to remove the bell. I was only using shell station 2 and 5. The bell and crimp were measured with good calipers after each action. The problem occurs at station 5. As I start to adjust the crimp die the dummy round sticks in the die before I get .001 crimp and it makes a pop lowering the shell plate coming off the round. Since the 45 acp headspace off the case mouth, I am concerned about the shavings of brass coming off the mouth. I took a reloading class from an authorized Dillon dealer here in Colorado and we loaded 45 acp on the 650. Their crimp die did not produce brass shavings at all. There definitely was no sticking on the crimp die like I am getting. The only time I get smooth operation of the press is when I am getting zero crimp. Anything else I could try? Previous responses were appreciated. Thank you. Next step I guess I'll try another brand seater die.
I went through the set up again last night and ended up playing with just 2 functions, the mouth case bell and the crimp to remove the bell. I was only using shell station 2 and 5. The bell and crimp were measured with good calipers after each action. The problem occurs at station 5. As I start to adjust the crimp die the dummy round sticks in the die before I get .001 crimp and it makes a pop lowering the shell plate coming off the round. Since the 45 acp headspace off the case mouth, I am concerned about the shavings of brass coming off the mouth. I took a reloading class from an authorized Dillon dealer here in Colorado and we loaded 45 acp on the 650. Their crimp die did not produce brass shavings at all. There definitely was no sticking on the crimp die like I am getting. The only time I get smooth operation of the press is when I am getting zero crimp. Anything else I could try? Previous responses were appreciated. Thank you. Next step I guess I'll try another brand seater die.
Quote from Reloader on March 26, 2017, 3:28 amA slight bump when the case pulls out of the crimp die is normal. That could also be the die (I use the Lee factory crimp die) 'final sizing' out a wrinkle from another poorly adjusted die. If the case mouth measures good and a pulled bullet shows only a very light crimp mark, try the loaded rounds in your pistol. Your chamber makes a nice go-nogo gauge if you don't have one.
Any chance the brass shavings are from seating the bullet? Too little belling will do that a lot and the shavings might not be shed till crimp. Look closely at a seated but not crimped cartridge.
I flare very lightly. Try to have the belled case maybe .002" larger than the body below once a bullet is seated. Less if you can.
A slight bump when the case pulls out of the crimp die is normal. That could also be the die (I use the Lee factory crimp die) 'final sizing' out a wrinkle from another poorly adjusted die. If the case mouth measures good and a pulled bullet shows only a very light crimp mark, try the loaded rounds in your pistol. Your chamber makes a nice go-nogo gauge if you don't have one.
Any chance the brass shavings are from seating the bullet? Too little belling will do that a lot and the shavings might not be shed till crimp. Look closely at a seated but not crimped cartridge.
I flare very lightly. Try to have the belled case maybe .002" larger than the body below once a bullet is seated. Less if you can.
Quote from Reloader on March 26, 2017, 2:08 pmI load a lot of lead. So I need a good bell. 10 thousands is usually sufficient. You really only need enough to set a bullet on the case and not fall off, and not shave lead rings off the bullet when seating it.
Brass. That has to be coming from someplace. Make sure the shellplate is plenty tight. Adjust your dies with a shell in each station. Make sure to lube your brass. A little Dillon spray lube in a plastic bag and roll it around good will usually do it. Fired brass and dry tumbled with polish almost never requires it. Still, a little lube and everything runs smoother. Your cases, have they been lightly chamfered and deburred? That will help with the sticking problem especially on new brass. Lastly, yank out the dies and the powder funnel. Examine them for any trace of brass. Make sure there is none. Once brass starts sticking to steel, it will keep sticking and just get worst. Clean the dies and the funnel to be sure.
Be careful with crimping. A resized case should have plenty of tension to hold the bullet. Crimping on a semi-auto round is just getting rid of the bell. More than that could deform the bullet. But it should be held firm.
I load a lot of lead. So I need a good bell. 10 thousands is usually sufficient. You really only need enough to set a bullet on the case and not fall off, and not shave lead rings off the bullet when seating it.
Brass. That has to be coming from someplace. Make sure the shellplate is plenty tight. Adjust your dies with a shell in each station. Make sure to lube your brass. A little Dillon spray lube in a plastic bag and roll it around good will usually do it. Fired brass and dry tumbled with polish almost never requires it. Still, a little lube and everything runs smoother. Your cases, have they been lightly chamfered and deburred? That will help with the sticking problem especially on new brass. Lastly, yank out the dies and the powder funnel. Examine them for any trace of brass. Make sure there is none. Once brass starts sticking to steel, it will keep sticking and just get worst. Clean the dies and the funnel to be sure.
Be careful with crimping. A resized case should have plenty of tension to hold the bullet. Crimping on a semi-auto round is just getting rid of the bell. More than that could deform the bullet. But it should be held firm.
Quote from Reloader on April 11, 2017, 7:32 pm"Sounds like your shell plate could be too tight." The set screw for the shell plate bolt can get loose. The rotation of the shell plate holder is clockwise and will tighten the bolt if the set screw is loose. Not uncommon and easy to check and rule out as a problem.
"Sounds like your shell plate could be too tight." The set screw for the shell plate bolt can get loose. The rotation of the shell plate holder is clockwise and will tighten the bolt if the set screw is loose. Not uncommon and easy to check and rule out as a problem.
Quote from Reloader on August 6, 2019, 3:40 pmI had the exact same problem you describe, and the problem was that my Sizing Die was set too far down. You'll need a case gauge and a bit of clean unsized brass... Find a piece of brass that doesn't just drop into the case gauge and use it to determine the depth of your sizing die... Start by raising your sizing die off the index plate about 1/4"... then try sizing the brass. Drop it in your case gauge and see if it drops in. If not, lower the die one half of a turn and try again. Repeat as necessary until your case drops into the case gauge. Once you reach the correct depth, lock the die in place. My sizing die is just over an 1/8 of an inch above the shell plate. This solved by issue completely.
I had the exact same problem you describe, and the problem was that my Sizing Die was set too far down. You'll need a case gauge and a bit of clean unsized brass... Find a piece of brass that doesn't just drop into the case gauge and use it to determine the depth of your sizing die... Start by raising your sizing die off the index plate about 1/4"... then try sizing the brass. Drop it in your case gauge and see if it drops in. If not, lower the die one half of a turn and try again. Repeat as necessary until your case drops into the case gauge. Once you reach the correct depth, lock the die in place. My sizing die is just over an 1/8 of an inch above the shell plate. This solved by issue completely.
Quote from Reloader on August 19, 2019, 4:25 amI wanted to offer a solution that has worked for me regarding virgin cases getting stuck on the powder funnel. I encountered this especially with the 9mm. I have only loaded 38 spl, 357 Mag and 9mm.
I started reloading with a Redding T7 turret press using Redding dies. I realized that I did not encounter any sticking problems with the Redding dies and wondered what differences there where and if any of those differences could be a cause. I will spare you all the long drawn out story. I will try to attach a briefing that describes the detail necessary and my thought process in my final solution.
The bottom line is:
I use the T7 turret press to do my sizing and recapping.
I installed the Redding Titanium Carbide die in Station 1 of the XL650.
I modified the powder funnel by sanding and polishing the OD of the expander so that it is a slip fit in the 9mm case.
I further installed a brass sleeve on the powder funnel so that when the ram is raised the sleeve contacts the shell plate and in turn activates the powder measure.
A word of warning however, this change means that that the powder measure is active regardless of whether there is a case in station 2 or not. It will drop a charge every time the ram is raised as long as the powder funnel is installed.the good news is that I just completed 100 rounds of 9mm using virgin Startling brass, and did not experience any cases sticking.
Unfortunately, I do not see a way to attach my charts to this posting. These charts provide a much better explanation of the solution. So, if anyone would like a copy of the charts just give me your email address and I will be happy to send them to you.
I hope my work helps
Happy Reloading,
Rog
I wanted to offer a solution that has worked for me regarding virgin cases getting stuck on the powder funnel. I encountered this especially with the 9mm. I have only loaded 38 spl, 357 Mag and 9mm.
I started reloading with a Redding T7 turret press using Redding dies. I realized that I did not encounter any sticking problems with the Redding dies and wondered what differences there where and if any of those differences could be a cause. I will spare you all the long drawn out story. I will try to attach a briefing that describes the detail necessary and my thought process in my final solution.
The bottom line is:
I use the T7 turret press to do my sizing and recapping.
I installed the Redding Titanium Carbide die in Station 1 of the XL650.
I modified the powder funnel by sanding and polishing the OD of the expander so that it is a slip fit in the 9mm case.
I further installed a brass sleeve on the powder funnel so that when the ram is raised the sleeve contacts the shell plate and in turn activates the powder measure.
A word of warning however, this change means that that the powder measure is active regardless of whether there is a case in station 2 or not. It will drop a charge every time the ram is raised as long as the powder funnel is installed.
the good news is that I just completed 100 rounds of 9mm using virgin Startling brass, and did not experience any cases sticking.
Unfortunately, I do not see a way to attach my charts to this posting. These charts provide a much better explanation of the solution. So, if anyone would like a copy of the charts just give me your email address and I will be happy to send them to you.
I hope my work helps
Happy Reloading,
Rog
Quote from Reloader on March 21, 2020, 9:02 pmOk I have a huge question..my 650 started sticking and and the shell plate was contacting the rim of the case yesterday. Upon disassembly and inspection the plastic ring had a crack in it. Could this be the reason for the binding?
Ok I have a huge question..my 650 started sticking and and the shell plate was contacting the rim of the case yesterday. Upon disassembly and inspection the plastic ring had a crack in it. Could this be the reason for the binding?
Quote from Reloader on March 24, 2020, 3:17 pmSince no one responded I am going to go out on a limb and say yes unless it looks more like it was made that way. I seem to remember something that had a 45* slice but don’t remember if it was the indexer.
Since no one responded I am going to go out on a limb and say yes unless it looks more like it was made that way. I seem to remember something that had a 45* slice but don’t remember if it was the indexer.
Quote from Reloader on April 9, 2020, 10:22 pmMaybe you could dip a few case mouths into graphite powder, then run them through the machine. If the machine runs smooth you will know what the problem is.
Maybe you could dip a few case mouths into graphite powder, then run them through the machine. If the machine runs smooth you will know what the problem is.